NetNews Offline 2/NetNews Offline Volume 2.iso/news/comp/sys/amiga/misc-part1/3649

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Path: cup.portal.com!Gemini2
From: [e-mail] (Gary Alan Peake)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: The March Amiga?
Date: 30 Jan 1996 21:00:30 -0800
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>And they need Dean Stockwell to make the leap home, I suppose ;)
>If they don`t have any critics, they can do what the hell they like with "Yes"
>men like you egging them on. They need some criticisim, even if it`s not
>construcive, to remind them of the things WE want, even if it`s not all
>reasonable. They *will* find good ideas in there somehwre, even if they don`t
>choose to implement them. Besides, without US, your existence is meaningless..
.
>;)

Dean Stockwell? Man are you young ... :)  Subjective, constructive criticism
isn't a problem for me. What IS a problem is the constant 'ha,ha,ha ... it
isn't gonna sell' stuff. Maybe, just maybe if we give Amiga Technologies a
chance, we will see some really neat stuff for the Amiga for the first time
in years? BUT, if we all run outside and yell 'the sky is falling' we won't
see squat! That's my problem with all the whining that's going on (from the
same 2-3 people).


>>Part of the problem is the number of people who have never taken Economics
>>101! You NEVER sell a product for less than the market will bring unless you
>>are stupid or too filthy rich to be in business in the first place. The name
>>of the game is 'maximize profits' which Escom has done very well at in the
>>past. None of us know what the 'real' cost is to Amiga Technologies for the
>>products they are delivering. BUT, it isn't cheaper for them than it was for
>>C= when they were going bankrupt and already had supplies handy for
>>production.
>
>Ahem, Nintendo, Sony, Sega - need I go on? They sell products for approaching
>cost prices and make their profits out of software. At the low end, the Amiga
>cannot compete as a games machine in the face of the POWER of the PSX, at the
>LOW PRICE, and the EXCELLENT MARKETING IMAGE of the PSX - pick out the key
>words Big Bird. They obviously ignore the price of the software, but once
>someone has the hardware, what else are they going to do? It`s the same idea
>with their Black Box (or should be) - Sell it at near cost, and make people pa
y
>through an Internet deal for 10 UK pounds per month. Guaranteed.

So you actually think that the way to success is to pawn the Amiga's off at
a rediculously low price then gouge the customers with high program prices
once they have the hardware? That is exactly why I'm still with the Amiga! I
payed my money for the 3000, but I can do almost anything that a clone head
can do with his expensive programs at about half the price in most cases and
even for free in many cases! We get more PD/Shareware/Giftware/Mailware
hard-core stuff for relatively nothing while the cloners pay BIG BUCKS to
get the same stuff off the shelves. Compare FW4 to an equivalent clone
program IN PRICE! No thanks ... I'll pay for the hardware just like I always
have and dribble along with all the thousands of Aminet stuff and the
inexpensive commercial stuff that I need and use.

>>Amiga Technologies would also be ignorant to say today 'just wait a few
>>months and the price will drop'. We all know what would happen.
>
>Yes, quite right, but at the moment, they will have to drop prices sooner or
>leter, since their new price structure of the moment is becomeing rapidly
>obvious. It seems that many people in the know are waiting for the price drop
>anyway, and not many perople NOT in the know don`t know anyway due to ZERO
>marketing, and no show in the showrooms.

Amiga Technologies IS still trying to get enough computers to fill demand.
They haven't even touched the edge of the barrell here in the NA continent!
If you guys won't buy em, we certainly will snatch them up ... and quick!!

>I`ve said before, what they are pushing is indeed not crap. The price makes it
>crap, if you like. OK, economically speaking, there may be a reason for this,
>but AT shouldn`t and haven`t got the sales they expected at this price. OK Mr.
>Economics, Something isn`t selling as expected at the price you set. What do
>you do? Do you want to go for "double jeopardy" on that?

OK ... two options on your 'scenario'. 1: Add something to the product to
help it sell (Surfer) 2: Closely monitor demand and drop the price ONLY WHEN
demand starts to drop at a significant level. #2 is presently out because
Amiga Technologies still can't touch the demands they have here in the US.

>I don`t remember seeing it. Maybe I did, but I tend to delete expletives if I
>can. I have a bigger thesaurus than you think ;)

Maybe you could loan it to Eric for a week or two?  :)


>>>First time buyers do not buy computers on the basis of what is best. They lo
o
>k
>>>at the adverts, the blurb, then they go into the shops. Then they buy a PC
>>>becaue their mate said the Amiga is dead, overpriced, crap, etc.
>>
>>This may be true for some, but MANY people are 'impulse buyers'. I bought my
>>first A500 on a lark. Was walking thru a shopping center and saw a ball
>>bouncing on a screen in a Software,Etc store. Went in, played a little, and
>>took the thing home. Even being a long time C64, C128, etc fanatic ... I did
>>not make the C= connection until I took everything out of the box at home!
>
>No. "Impulse" buys are now reserved for the Superconsole because they are
>cheaper, more wide ranged in the shops, and have a larger public image. I knew
>about the Amiga for months before I got one, I even bought the first 7 issues
>of Amiga Computing (UK) before I got one to make sure I was getting a good dea
l
>for my money. I didn`t have enough cash to consider the A500 I got as a "lark"
>- I had to save up for a fair few weeks before I could afford my A500 (being a
>bit young at the time ;) - and 400 UK pounds isn`t an impulse buy. 199-299
>maybe, but certainly not 399.

Different strokes for different folks then. I went to my local Amiga dealer
to buy a 2000 and walked out with a 3000 (at a considerable price
difference). My second Amiga 'impulse' buy. Grandpa always said that 'if ya
have to ask the price, boy, you either don't really NEED it or you don't
really WANT it.'

>Then why did they take on AT UK staff only to fire them later. Not a very good
>PR stunt to encourage optimisim in long-time Amiga enthusiasts is it?

Well, they seemed to have kept Ed Goff on too? He made himself useful by
getting them into ibm.net I feel sure. Maybe these guys didn't make
themselves useful enough to keep around. When you play with the big boys,
you play for keeps. Amiga Technologies/Escom has no room right now for
'fancy hand shaking' and 'smiling at ya' crap. They are ass deep in getting
a whole new company with a new OS, developer support, internet support,
hardware R&D, out-sourcing parts and production, and software porting going
on all at the same time ... with a record low number of employees and a
record setting pace taking place!! Have you ever been involved in a new
startup operation like this one? It takes guts, grit, and heart ... 24 hours
a day, 7 days a week, 4 weeks a month! You rest when it's done ... about a
year or two down the road. Dave Haynie is the hardware Guru of all Guru's
(IMHO) and I was sad that he wouldn't be in on the effort, but life moves
on. That was his and their choice to make. I won't stop buying Amiga's
because Dave isn't involved, but I think he would have given us a hardware
ride to the Power Amiga world that would have been even more thrilling than
the 3000 was in it's day!!! Another old saying here in Texas is that 'ya
gotta dance with whoever brung ya'. That's Amiga Technologies right now.


>Yes, occasionally. I get/read over 18 magazines a month. Most of them Amiga,
>some Internet, a couple of games mags (edge, and maybe an odd PSX title), and
>several non-computing sport mags. And I don`t think the average PC user has
>anything to fear until a PC mag starts to say, "Oh Sh*t, look at the Amiga xxx
x
>-it`s got a chipset as powerful as the Diamond Stealth 3D and 16-bit
>Soundblaster, but only costs 299UK pounds, how the hell so they do that?"
>
>Usually, PC mags will dismiss other platforms, as does any single platform mag
.

Well, if you pay real close attention, the Amiga IS starting to get some
mentions now and again. It's not time to do advertising. When production is
at full capacity, and we have something new to advertise, then they should
advertise!!

>>>3) AT made it clear that any profits from AT Internet went straight into R&D
.
>>
>>
>>And now, folks, we want to control the profits that Amiga Technologies makes
>>too?   :)
>
>Well, us Brits are sick of the large profits from our privatised industries
>(gas, water, electricity) going to fat, old chairman who get huge pay
>bonuses/increases/retire with 1.5M+ UK pound payoffs /share option cash-ins)
>when the bills for the customer keep going up, and the service gets worse.

Ah, so now you aren't getting the service you expected from Amiga
Technologies either? Have you called them about it yet? Emailed them maybe?
And I'd bet that Petro only wishes he had a million dollar parachute waiting
for him right now!!  :)

>Thousand HAVEN`T. Remember that AT haven`t reached their target. Fallen rather
>short, as I seem to remember - now which reasons could you attribute to that
>fact? Is it: PRICE? MARKETING? SPEC? DISTRIBUTION? ESCOM SALES STAFF? THE ESCO
M
>PC? MICROSOFT?

Maybe production? We still have no reliable supplies here in the States yet?


>Pick as many as you like.

Thanks anyway. I like the one I mentioned best!  :)


>But the Amiga woud have been acceptable at just 100 UK pounds less for many
>people. OK there are R&D costs required, but don`t take it out on AGA buyers.
>I don`t want to have to go into the myriad reasons why it would have been
>better to have a lower price - not least when you go into an Escom shop and
>start to compare price/spec, with a helpful unbiased salesman to help you with
>your PC purcase ;)

Maybe YOU should re-educate the lads then? Remind them of the emulation
abilities, the inexpensive nature of our software in comparison, the
inexpensive nature of our OS upgrades (roms and all vs 'clone cd in a box'
upgrades). Sound that isn't an add-on card.

>Well, now the production boost is over, and AT are left with thousands of
>unsold machines which will now become "surfers". Not very nice, is it? And wil
l
>the A1200Plus kill off sales of the A1200? Not likely as I believe that it
>won`t displace the A1200, it`ll be positioned ABOVE the A1200 in the mid-range
>:(.
>Yet more low sales in the UK AT, I hope you`re happy :(.

What? First the old 1200's will now become 'Surfers' and then they are being
left unsold? Make up my mind ...


>Again, I have to ask, why did they hire them in the first place? Because they
>expected the sales they were projecting, not just half. I don`t know the real
>reason that most of AT UK were fired, but I bet it`s just more cost cutting on
>their behalf. AT are desperate not to go into the red, aren`t they?

I would have kept them on to suck their knowledge base dry IF THERE WAS ONE
that would be beneficial to my company. Then, they either produce or walk
the plank ... modern business 101 here in the States I'm afraid.

>>How many times will we go thru this? First, everyone here is appalled that
>>Amiga Technologies will NOT sell Amiga's thru Escom stores. Then, we are
>>appalled that the Escom people don't know anything about the Amiga, yet may
>>be selling them. You and Eric can't have it BOTH ways!!!
>
>No, but the customer wins, and walks out of the Escom shop with a PC. Are you
>happy? Why else are we going on about this and that? We are reporting things a
s
>we see them, in my case, I go into my local Escom store every weekend and
>despair. What experience do you have of Amiga stores at the moment?

See my diatrab about Amiga Technologies and the NA continent. I will get my
chance at a later date. Seems that Amiga Technologies finds the European
market easier to keep sells going in at the moment. See, I am NOT happy
about the US specifically and the NA continent generally being left out
right now, but I DO understand why (from a business standpoint) and will
dodder along until it's our time.

>>Then YOU need to get one!!! I'll fumble along with whatever Amiga
>>Technologies gives us. I'd certainly hate to 'cramp your style' any.  :)
>
>No problem. I`ll just keep on going with my A4000 thanks. And I`ll pre-empt
>your Mystic Megging by predicting a sales disaster for the Surfer pack by Xmas
>96 if it has a March UK price of 600-700 UK pounds. Exactly the price of the
>CDTV upon it`s quiet release...

Well, here's a Mystic Meg for ya! Amiga Technologies announces a new PPC
Amiga that outperforms anything else on the market ... CEBit 1997!!!

>But the price of the PPC will be critical (as with everything else) upon it`s
>release. The A1200 is a disaster (just thought I`d slip that in to make sure
>everyone understands ;).

I don't really think the price of the PPC will be that important (give or
take a few hundred US dollars). IF Dr Kittel gets his initial wish of
keeping the OS as user-friendly and easy to operate as we have become
accustomed with the same style of 'custom graphics' that we have come to
enjoy that works inside a PPC environment ... then the clones be damned!!!
Nothing will touch what we will have!! Can you even imagine someone buying a
computer that needs all that ram just for an OS if they have a choice of an
Amiga with a much smaller footprint, just as fast or even faster (because of
less overhead), and custom graphics right out of the box? Sheee-it, Son!!
We'll be in tall cotton that even the cotton-pickers can't reach!!

>>>>>Face it, you`re just a Yes man, and I don`t mean you`re a member of a 70`s
>>>>>supergroup, even if you liked Rick Wakeman in any way ;)
>
>>>
>>>Hmm, Rick Wakeman, who did the music for Microcosm, who was prevenalent in t
h
>a
>>t
>>>super-band of the 70`s that you MUST have heard of -"Yes" the ones with the
>>>Roger Dean artwork? Never mind. Too crusty to remember, obviously.
>>
>>Sorry ... I'm into the Beatles, The Who, The Eagles ... I don't play many
>>games on my Amiga.
>
>Man, are you old ;)

Yep, 43 and still getting out of bed EVERY morning!! I'm not a 'yes man'. I
am one excited individual at what a few rash programmers and a couple of
weird hardware guru's could do if they were turned loose with the Amiga and
told 'make the pulse beat so hard that it blows arteries'!! Are you
listening Olaf and PhaseV????  :)

>>Then don't ... but don't try and stop those who might with all the gloom and
>>doom stuff!
>
>Hey I`m going to recommend the COMPUTER which is best for my friends when they
>ask me what they should get instead of their little A500, or Spectrum, or Sega
,
>or whatever. At the moment, the Amiga isn`t very high on that list.

So you're going to continue driving your Amiga while suggesting to all your
friends that they'd be better off buying a clone? Makes you look rather dumb
doesn't it? No insinuations meant. I'd just feel stupid telling all my
friends that I was dumb and put all this time and money into an inferior
product.

>Call it doom and gloom if you like. It`s definately NOT fanaticism, unless som
e
>Garys we could mention ;)

Why don't you put all that negative energy into something useful? See my
tag!   :)


Gary
-----------------------------------------
[e-mail]    'Mystic Meg'   |  TEAM AMIGA is a grassroots
                                         |  movement designed to provide
Avid Supporter of Amiga Technologies     |  support to all Amiga users
                                         |  and to Amiga Technologies!
Charter Member ---> *TEAM AMIGA*         |
-----------------------------------------


... How DO they get teflon to stick to the pans?

-*- ASTG 1.9